Guilds Tanking Guilds In AT's - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

payne · Apr 10, 2008, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motoko Kusanagi War

Do I expect them to win? No, and I know they don't either. So what does that mean? Do you know? Or is that just another thing you don't understand? Because its all quite clear to me.

You don't see what the problem is because you just don't seem to be understanding anything in this thread.

Have I ever played [Best]? On an AT situation I have, unlike you. I do believe different people's viewpoints on the situation are confusing you. So you sir, should try and understand the points being made properly.

whats the problem then? as said its a load of people screwing around with hench/heroes so what? they may actually be trying to bugger around with new builds...I've seen teams like eF run hero-way opposed to actually using other players - does that mean they are tanking their rating?

I D E L E T E D I · Apr 10, 2008, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motoko Kusanagi War

Do I expect them to win? No, and I know they don't either. So what does that mean? Do you know? Or is that just another thing you don't understand? Because its all quite clear to me.

You don't see what the problem is because you just don't seem to be understanding anything in this thread.

Have I ever played [Best]? On an AT situation I have, unlike you. I do believe different people's viewpoints on the situation are confusing you. So you sir, should try and understand the points being made properly.

Good Sir you should make some sense first

. They are good players, but because they play ALOT of henchway they loose alot. Their Rating reflects that. A couple of -25s from forfeiting ATs isn't going to make a damn difference to their Rating. So what was your point once again?

Motoko Kusanagi War · Apr 10, 2008, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by I D E L E T E D I

Good Sir you should make some sense first

. They are good players, but because they play ALOT of henchway they loose alot. Their Rating reflects that. A couple of -25s from forfeiting ATs isn't going to make a damn difference to their Rating. So what was your point once again?

Using the -25s to tank is the ladder manipulation that was being discussed. Apparently you did not understand this. Miles is denying the straight forward use of -25s to tank Best and thus defending them from violation of any said rules.

Is it clear to you now? Or would you like me to type this in english?

miles · Apr 10, 2008, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motoko Kusanagi War

Using the -25s to tank is the ladder manipulation that was being discussed. Apparently you did not understand this. Miles is denying the straight forward use of -25s to tank Best and thus defending them from violation of any said rules.

Is it clear to you now? Or would you like me to type this in english?

i do not deny doing that before the automated monthly, but like i said we were lower than we currently are BEFORE the -25 from automated tournaments was implimented(if you are so stubborn as to need physical proof i have screen shots

). We have been trying to get on the ladder, and have not been "tanking" (dicking around on ladder 24/7, or signing up for automated and forfeiting first round) since the monthly tournament which was over 2 weeks ago.

Our current rating is 846, and the day of the monthly it was 818 if you are so insistent that we have been "tanking" via automated's im pretty sure we would go down in rating not up >.>

so once again, knowing that the [Best] has been at a lower rating BEFORE the implimentation of -25 automateds, are you complaining that the system is broken or that the guild is somehow cheating the system.

pebble · Apr 11, 2008, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motoko Kusanagi War

Using the -25s to tank is the ladder manipulation that was being discussed. Apparently you did not understand this. Miles is denying the straight forward use of -25s to tank Best and thus defending them from violation of any said rules.

Is it clear to you now? Or would you like me to type this in english?

except for the fact that you have yet to respond to everything miles has said thus far? youre not making your points very clear. what is it youre upset about, the at forfeit "tanking" or the playing all the time and losing via hench/heroway "tanking"?

and ladder manipulation how? if you would take the time to respond to the people youre actually addressing in this issue, you would see that they have an answer for all of your concearns. the constant play is blatant, a lot of us prefer to just play the game, regardless of how many available people in the guild at the time.

and as for the at forfeiting, same could be said about any guild that forfeits the daily ats. best draws more attention to itself for obvious reasons but there are a few guilds that i shall keep unnamed that "tank" or play for fun(and lose) or forfeit ats they cant get enough people for that would possibly considered as manipulating the ladder, og definately being one of them but there are many more. we are actually in the process of TRYING to get back on the ladder, as miles has stated before(repeated solely for the fact you seem to ignore the people youre addressing here)

that fact that youve gotten probably a collective -50 odd rating shows the REASON for this sudden need for the "enforcement" of the rules. its sad really that your rating or rank or w/e is that important to you. learn 2 play for fun.

Motoko Kusanagi War · Apr 11, 2008, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by pebble

except for the fact that you have yet to respond to everything miles has said thus far? youre not making your points very clear. what is it youre upset about, the at forfeit "tanking" or the playing all the time and losing via hench/heroway "tanking"?

and ladder manipulation how? if you would take the time to respond to the people youre actually addressing in this issue, you would see that they have an answer for all of your concearns. the constant play is blatant, a lot of us prefer to just play the game, regardless of how many available people in the guild at the time.

and as for the at forfeiting, same could be said about any guild that forfeits the daily ats. best draws more attention to itself for obvious reasons but there are a few guilds that i shall keep unnamed that "tank" or play for fun(and lose) or forfeit ats they cant get enough people for that would possibly considered as manipulating the ladder, og definately being one of them but there are many more. we are actually in the process of TRYING to get back on the ladder, as miles has stated before(repeated solely for the fact you seem to ignore the people youre addressing here)

that fact that youve gotten probably a collective -50 odd rating shows the REASON for this sudden need for the "enforcement" of the rules. its sad really that your rating or rank or w/e is that important to you. learn 2 play for fun.

What do you want me to say in response to miles? Yes I agree with you? No I disagree with what you know is going on in [Best]? He is presenting [Best] and I have no incentive to refute it.

As for this whole "YOUR JUST QQING CUZ U GOTS -50 RATING RECENTLY."

No, I'm simply bringing this into the light since no one else has. Assuming things proves nothing. Stop assuming things about me. Any speculation as to why I brought this subject up have no direct impact, but only point a finger at me as if I'm defending some lost honor I used to have before fighting you guys. You are just wrong.

I do play for fun, but I am also very competitive. I can't change who I am, so I doubt you could either.

pebble · Apr 11, 2008, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motoko Kusanagi War

What do you want me to say in response to miles? Yes I agree with you? No I disagree with what you know is going on in [Best]? He is presenting [Best] and I have no incentive to refute it.

As for this whole "YOUR JUST QQING CUZ U GOTS -50 RATING RECENTLY."

No, I'm simply bringing this into the light since no one else has. Assuming things proves nothing. Stop assuming things about me. Any speculation as to why I brought this subject up have no direct impact, but only point a finger at me as if I'm defending some lost honor I used to have before fighting you guys. You are just wrong.

I do play for fun, but I am also very competitive. I can't change who I am, so I doubt you could either.

well considering youre asking for answers and hes giving them i think it would be wise to at least take heed to what he's saying. lol you say "what you know is going on in best" as if we all have some sort of evil plan here. and infact i did NOT say you were "QQ'ing" i said i find it funny that after the second lost to best you decide to speak up about this when it was a well known fact BEFOREHAND that best was a very low ranked guild. And people definately have brought up the point before, just no ones seemed to take it as a serious offence as you seem to be doing. and youve STILL not made your point 100% clear. ill ask you in very simple terms.

What is it you are upset about?

and if you say the breaking of the rules then you clearly havent payed attention to anything anyones been saying. so basically any guild the forfeits the daily ats should be dq'd? i personally dont think the -25 implement was a good idea, FUNNILY ENOUGH being in best, no one thought to use it to our "advantage" considering we dont actually take this game that seriously. there is no "plan" that you seem to be hinting at. if youre complaining about the -25 forfeit clause then i would advice against using best as a scapegoat. unless of course your motive IS because of the damage we did to your guild. this is a matter you should be taking up with a gm or someone who can actually fix the "problem" at hand, rather than bitching at a guild who just likes to play a lot.

and i have no problem with being competitive, its a natural instinct in a competitive game surely, but when it comes to the point of blaming someone else for your own guilds failure then surely the fault lies within yourselves.

E.V.A · Apr 16, 2008, 09:39 AM // 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by pebble

but when it comes to the point of blaming someone else for your own guilds failure then surely the fault lies within yourselves.

qft.

If you just lose to some group which plays for fun, get over it (less crying), get better and possibly win them next time.

Billiard · Apr 16, 2008, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motoko Kusanagi War

But see, if the guilds weren't good, you would agree that this issue would have never been brought up. It's the fact that some guilds are good that cause reason for concern. And you know that.

lol, OG is rank 380ish? That's not really tanking yet. But if they are forfeiting to get -25s, then yes you would be correct. I was not aware that were doing so.

So your assumption that I'm TRYING to get [Best] banned is fail. Bye.

I would like to point out that Motoko originally started this thread as "Ban Guilds That Purposely Tank Guilds in AT's" in this section, but I deleted that and then he started this one. So I think he must be backtracking here a little ...

Anyway as far as I know, Best is working to win matches and stay on the ladder now, so perhaps this discussion is moot anyway?

Motoko Kusanagi War · Apr 16, 2008, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billiard

I would like to point out that Motoko originally started this thread as "Ban Guilds That Purposely Tank Guilds in AT's" in this section, but I deleted that and then he started this one. So I think he must be backtracking here a little ...

Anyway as far as I know, Best is working to win matches and stay on the ladder now, so perhaps this discussion is moot anyway?

If that is true, then you would be correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by E.V.A

qft.

If you just lose to some group which plays for fun, get over it (less crying), get better and possibly win them next time.

That is a very true quote. Thank you for adding a statement that has nothing to do with this thread.

kev doppleganger · Apr 17, 2008, 11:27 PM // 23:27

I agree with the motoko what [b e s t] did was a total ladder exploit to gain trim + reward points in the monthly. Imagine if they had won ? How Anet lets them get away with this makes me sick , and makes the rest of the mid level guilds who play with honour and dignity look really stupid

credit · Apr 18, 2008, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Sorry, but it is too hilarious.

Yarly · Apr 18, 2008, 09:36 AM // 09:36

This is a pretty dumb topic, guilds have been tanking other guilds ever since the ladder was born. Anet didn't take notice then and they won't now. Best's tanking is pretty low level when you think about some of the bigger and more well known guilds that have tanked in the past. Get over it.

Motoko Kusanagi War · Apr 18, 2008, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yarly

This is a pretty dumb topic, guilds have been tanking other guilds ever since the ladder was born. Anet didn't take notice then and they won't now. Best's tanking is pretty low level when you think about some of the bigger and more well known guilds that have tanked in the past. Get over it.

QQ? I do not believe there is anything to get over. I did not bring this up because I think it is a huge deal. Stop hyperbolizing this thread, it is unnecessary.

SurareVaera · Apr 19, 2008, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motoko Kusanagi War

QQ? I do not believe there is anything to get over. I did not bring this up because I think it is a huge deal. Stop hyperbolizing this thread, it is unnecessary.

Then why did you bring this topic up if it's not a huge deal? Honestly, that's a rhetorical question because I don't care. I'm going to post my two cents regardless.

If you guys listened to the rawr cup coverage on guildcafe radio featuring Joe Hostile, Will from {best}, and Izzy, you would have noticed that Izzy played flag runner for {best} in the rawr cup. Would he have done that if he doubted {best}'s character or motivation? As a skill designer, I think there's a warm spot in Izzy's heart for {best} because they're a creative guild that strives for interesting matches instead of boring, play for VoD matches that win gold capes. They think outside the box with build design and have both epic failures and successes. QQ all you want, I don't think you're going to convince Izzy or ANet that {best} is conspiring to manipulate the ladder. Besides, {best} has been below the ladder line for ages - well over six months, possibly longer. Complaining now because they have shiny silver capes while you have poop trim or worse just seems spiteful.

There's no doubt {best} gets immense satisfaction by beating overconfident guilds that take rating and rank seriously as if it actually means something. However, that enjoyment (or deliberate tanking from the sore loser's perspective) is secondary to the occasional successes they achieve using creative, innovative, or simply random, fun to play builds. I think Motoko is delusional if he thinks that guilds underestimated {best} in this monthly or any of the previous monthlies they've participated in because they were rank 6000+. The GvG community is small and close-knit, and I don't think anyone except Motoko is throwing a hissy fit. Attempting to call for a ban on one of the few bastions of creativity left in Guild Wars is beyond absurd. I'd rather reward innovation than make pathetic attempts to intimidate it. I'm not alone in thinking that Motoko only cares about strict enforcement when he's on the wrong end of a -23. There's no shame in taking a -23 from a guild with better players (or a -50 dR lol). I'd get way more upset taking -2 from Goth or some know-it-all tombs scrubs tbh.

Through the grapevine anyways, I've heard Miles wants to get on the ladder to see the Won / Loss numbers, something I'm sure a lot of people are curious about too.

Motoko Kusanagi War · Apr 19, 2008, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurareVaera

Then why did you bring this topic up if it's not a huge deal? Honestly, that's a rhetorical question because I don't care. I'm going to post my two cents regardless.

You can bring up a topic for discussion WITHOUT it being a huge deal to the author. Try it sometime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurareVaera

QQ all you want, I don't think you're going to convince Izzy or ANet that {best} is conspiring to manipulate the ladder. Besides, {best} has been below the ladder line for ages - well over six months, possibly longer. Complaining now because they have shiny silver capes while you have poop trim or worse just seems spiteful.

Unfortunately, I am not "QQ-ing." I am actually bringing this topic up for discussion. Because I am fully aware that a large number of people are in firm believe that they should be banned. They just haven't spoken out on these forums.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurareVaera

I think Motoko is delusional
The GvG community is small and close-knit, and I don't think anyone except Motoko is throwing a hissy fit.

Unfortunately, I am not the only one to have brought this subject up. And yet again, you have presented your stupidity by claming that I am throwing a hissy fit. Stop whining about THINKING I am whining. I am not whining and it serves you no purpose even if I was. Stop focusing on that, it has nothing to do with this and is a pathetic attempt to downplay me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurareVaera

I'm not alone in thinking that Motoko only cares about strict enforcement when he's on the wrong end of a -23.

Then you are not alone in being wrong. You are also not alone in the light of assuming things that are not true.

I don't know who you are, nor do I care. You don't know me. I am not delusional. I am not throwing a hissy fit. I am bringing this topic up for discussion.

You ASSume too much. Nice try. Thanks. Bye.

Billiard · Apr 19, 2008, 05:11 PM // 17:11

This thread is just degenerating to trolling at this point and nothing constructive is coming out because people keep resorting to personal attacks instead of just sticking on subject.

Apr 17, 2008, 11:27 PM // 23:27	#31
kev doppleganger Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: England Guild: Diversionary Tactics [DT] Profession: W/E	I agree with the motoko what [b e s t] did was a total ladder exploit to gain trim + reward points in the monthly. Imagine if they had won ? How Anet lets them get away with this makes me sick , and makes the rest of the mid level guilds who play with honour and dignity look really stupid

Apr 18, 2008, 02:12 AM // 02:12	#32
credit Banned Join Date: Jan 2008 Guild: Team Apathy [aFk] Profession: W/P	Sorry, but it is too hilarious.

Apr 18, 2008, 09:36 AM // 09:36	#33
Yarly Retired GW Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: UK Profession: Mo/	This is a pretty dumb topic, guilds have been tanking other guilds ever since the ladder was born. Anet didn't take notice then and they won't now. Best's tanking is pretty low level when you think about some of the bigger and more well known guilds that have tanked in the past. Get over it.

Apr 19, 2008, 05:11 PM // 17:11	#37
Billiard Doctor of Philosophy Join Date: May 2005 Location: Pacific Northwest Guild: Team Love [kiSu] www.teamlove.us	This thread is just degenerating to trolling at this point and nothing constructive is coming out because people keep resorting to personal attacks instead of just sticking on subject.